27c3 - Desktop on the Linux... (and BSD, of course) - Wolfgang Draxinger (+ Lennart Poettering)
Why Hacker News recommends it
HN points to it as a vivid example of the clash between two philosophies of Linux desktop design, often in systemd and Wayland arguments, though many find it disrespectful.
What it is
A 27c3 talk on the Linux desktop (GNOME) by Wolfgang Draxinger, repeatedly interrupted and corrected by Lennart Poettering from the audience. The description notes much of the talk's content is disputed.
Recommended by 2 HN commenters across 2 different months, 2011 to 2023.
What Hacker News said
Recommends ciupicri · 2013-03 · on “Crowding out OpenBSD”
If you think that the OpenBSD has it right, why don't you use it as a desktop, too? Why aren't you running a virtual machine of Windows 7 under OpenBSD? Probably because there's no proper virtualization support in OpenBSD. Linux is complex because sometimes it has too be, not just for the sake of it. systemd (which is great in my opinion) wouldn't be possible without cgroups. Should I also mention the better multi-processor support? Regarding the desktop, I strongly recommend watching "27c3 - Desktop on the Linux... (and BSD, of course) - Wolfgang Draxinger (+ Lennart Poettering)" [1]. [1] [this video]
Recommends justsee · 2013-05 · on “Linux is not about choice (2008)”
This was an entertaining talk from CCC in 2011 on desktop Linux. 'datenwolf' was the speaker, and he starts talking about sound in Linux here. [1] He's quickly interrupted by the maintainer of PulseAudio, and this interruption continues throughout the talk. My takeaway was that if there was still this amount of confusion and misunderstanding in the community, my frustrating experiences with sound in desktop Ubuntu was not atypical of dekstop Linux users. [1] [this video]
Cites EvilLook · 2013-01 · on “Unix and the design of modern Linux systems”
The talk that datenwolf is talking about is on YouTube at [this video] I have posted that comment on the linked blog (it's awaiting moderation) without noticing that this post is several months old, so I've posted that same information here in case the author decides there's no reason approving a comment on a blog post that's several months old!
Cites federererer · 2015-11 · on “Videos from systemd.conf 2015”
Do any of the videos involve prominent systemd contributors interrupting the presenters, like in the notorious "Desktop on the Linux" video at [this video] ?
Cites vetinari · 2020-08 · on “GTK 3.99”
It's not that simple; explaining one reason why something would not work means re-examing many of the underlying assumptions and not many like to go deeper than that one problem at hand in isolation. The "ok, how would you do it" forces thinking about underlying issues, because the solution you propose has to account for factors you otherwise wouldn't think of. It is not a new problem either; this video is 9 years old already: [this video] . It is almost one hour long, but well worth to watch to see the two different approaches to clash.
Cites vetinari · 2021-02 · on “Wayland is not ready as a 1:1 compatible Xorg replacement just yet”
There is no split "terrible for users, great for some developers". Casual users do have issue with X; see this thread recently on HN: [LINK] . Would you consider that normal for users to handle? Of course not. Casual users having no issue with X is a lie. The fact is, that some subsytems on Linux are pile of hacks piled upon something built on assumptions that are no longer true. X11 is one of such subsystems. It is a dead end. When you are stuck in the dead end, you can either back up and once you are out, continue in your ride, or keep being stuck in the dead end. Wayland is backing out of the dead end; yes, it is short-term, high intensity pain, when you are not going forward, and even ha
Critical 4ad · 2013-01 · on “Systemd: The Biggest Myths”
Downvoting this post is unwarranted. Everything that Lennart Poettering has ever done was an unreliable clusterfuck[1] astray from the Unix philosphy. There's nothing that he has ever done that is considered "good" by a majority of Unix-derivative users. [1] [this video]
Critical dnlrn · 2014-10 · on “Shall we fork Debian?”
[this video] This is the talk you mean right? Have you actually seen the talk? Yes, Lennart interrupts the talk but everything he says is correct, while the presenter just spreads random FUD. The presenter clearly shows that he doesn’t understand most of the stuff he talks about, talks about 3 year old bugs that already got fixed, etc. Yes, it’s not the nicest way to interrupt a talk, but the presenter should have expected some kind of reaction, given the controversial headline. People like Lennart put their heart into their software. If you shit all over it and spread random FUD, you can expect some response. What would you have done? Also he doesn’t “take over the stage”. He comes up after the