Two Monkeys Were Paid Unequally: Excerpt from Frans de Waal's TED Talk
Why Hacker News recommends it
HN uses it again and again as shorthand for the idea that resentment of unfair pay and inequality is built into primates, including us.
What it is
A short excerpt from Frans de Waal's TED talk showing a capuchin monkey fairness experiment in which two monkeys are paid unequally, one with cucumber and one with grapes. The shortchanged monkey reacts angrily.
Recommended by 2 HN commenters across 2 different months, 2014 to 2024.
What Hacker News said
Strong rec acqq · 2019-04 · on “Life of Brian at 40: an assertion of individual freedom that still resonates”
This is the video that explains the best how the "morality" is natural even in the capuchin monkeys: [this video] So, no to those that claim that, humans aren't special, and no, the good sides of morality don't come from religion, especially not from the modern ones with a "jealous" god (killing homosexuals, or punishing women when not wearsing something, however, if that is considered "morality", indeed provably does come from religion). The whole talk: [LINK]
Recommends Qem · 2024-05 · on “The Age of Rage: Why Are People Are So Angry?”
There's a nice video from a psychological experiment that illustrates it: [this video] I think evolution hardwired our primate brains against inequality. We go out of our way to punish those who don't play nice and share with the broader group. Otherwise complex societies would have never emerged, because assholes exploiting and taking advantage of peers would ruin and doom any group larger than a few individuals.
Cites Lerc · 2014-05 · on “Animals in the wild found to use running wheel if given the choice”
There's proof and proof. No one has managed to prove other humans experience emotions, or even exist. Given a hypothetical model of a continually manipulated memory and consciousness you could even argue that you can't prove that you yourself have emotions (you might merely have the mistaken belief that you experience them). To take a more pragmatic approach to proof (good enough but not absolute) Humans and some animals experience emotions. At the very least most Mammals. Probably not all animals. A trickier proposition would be whether all vertebrates do, that's a different level of debate entirely. If you can't take things like the Monkey fairness tests as a sign of emotions [this video] then
Cites sushisource · 2017-08 · on “A Candle Loses Nothing by Lighting Another Candle”
Wouldn't be happy, I think you mean in your last sentence. You're almost certainly right. Resentment is built into our DNA: [this video] Of course, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be better people than shitty, jealous little monkeys.
Cites psadri · 2017-10 · on “Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well”
Happiness is relative. Humans (and animals) value "fairness" even if they are objectively better off. There is a famous experiment where two monkeys are given a cucumber every day. They are both happy. Then one of them starts getting grapes (sweeter than cucumber). The monkey that doesn't get the grapes rejects the cucumber in protest. [this video]
Cites fossuser · 2017-12 · on “The compelling case for working less”
This is not unique to humans. Check out: [this video] It takes a lot of effort to learn not to resent accomplishments of people you’re “competing” with even if they’re friends and you’re not directly competing with them. It’s a learned behavior to feel good for them instead. There’s probably a selected reason for this, but it’s possible to overcome it (or at least be aware of its affect). It’s better to frame life success on something else - like what you want to learn or the type of person you want to be.
Cites thaumaturgy · 2018-01 · on “Thousands of Starbucks Employees Are Getting Raises After GOP Tax Cuts”
A lot of people in the US right now are experiencing long-term financial strain. Those on the political right typically follow media streams which have convinced them that this is the result of regulations and taxes; those on the left follow media streams which have convinced them that it's the result of too much wealth being concentrated in the hands of too few people (and implicitly, that it's a result of policies from the political right). Corporations have the resources to navigate tax loopholes that allow them to avoid paying their fair share of social responsibility, and any number of free market worshippers will regularly appear to say, "but of course, they have a responsibility to th
Cites yonoataraxia · 2018-05 · on “Prefrontal cortex as a meta-reinforcement learning system”
Somewhat interesting: Bananas contain the ingredients necessary to produce dopamine. I can see how this all plays out as a way for some apes to get some bananas. Even social structures, fairness and other things (I love this video - two monkeys getting unequal pay [this video] ) can be explained by a dopamine system that just likes to give us bananas and sex. And it's incentivized to conserve energy because this is better for survival (also called lazy) - interesting is that humans have some tendency to do stuff that don't necessarily is conserving energy. Maybe this is what makes us successful: Sometimes we invest excessive energy to try new things which happens to let us survive better through