The LED Traffic Light and the Danger of "But Sometimes!"

Technology Connections · 4.2M views · 2018 · 18:31

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Transit, cities & urban planningFuturism & technology and societyScientific method & science communicationexplainer

Why Hacker News recommends it

Cited constantly as the name and example of the 'but sometimes' argument, where edge cases are used to resist better technology such as EVs and solar.

What it is

Technology Connections explains how LED traffic lights, which do not melt snow, drew complaints and were blamed for accidents. He uses it to illustrate the 'but sometimes' fallacy against new technology.

Recommended by 7 HN commenters across 6 different months, 2019 to 2024.

What Hacker News said

Strong rec dlivingston · 2019-05 · on “Detroit’s LED streetlights going dark after a few years”

I watched a YouTube video [0] this morning which actually does a fantastic job of explaining the pros and cons of LED-based traffic lights. Short answer: it's complicated. [0]: [this video]

Strong rec chipperyman573 · 2020-02 · on “Brown: color is weird [video]”

The one on traffic lights is way more interesting than it sounds! Everybody should check it out. There's also a really interesting point he makes at the end that applies to something a lot of people on HN might relate with [this video] The toaster one is alright, it kinda bothered me when he said there was "literally NO reason" to design something the way it was (I think it had to do with the position of the coils) - obviously there is, it's probably just not a reason he'd like (cost, ease of manufacturing, etc). It makes me wonder if there was other info he skipped on because it "wasn't important" or "stupid". That's a pretty minor point though, overall his videos are very good.

Strong rec lolinder · 2024-08 · on “China's total wind and solar capacity outstrips coal”

I love Technology Connections' take on this line of argument [0]: > When there's a new innovation which changes how we do things for the better, its benefits are obvious. ... However when the "But Sometimes" rears its ugly head, people tend to freak out. Suddenly all those benefits go away, because in this one particular facet of stoplight functionality, the wasteful and maintenance-heavy incandescent lamp is accidentally superior. Suddenly, when a new solution presents a new problem, all we think about is the problem. Yes, there are problems that exist with solar that don't exist with other electrical generation systems. That is not, by itself, evidence that solar will not be sufficient by

Recommends ChickeNES · 2020-03 · on “Lead-Free Solder Is Better for You”

Technology Connections has a great video on LED traffic lights and how the concern about snow was overblown: [this video]

Recommends jdmichal · 2021-01 · on “New Defaults”

Your coin flip is in a vacuum though. What is this innovation replacing? Did I previously have to roll a 100-sided die? If so, that coin flip sounds really damn good. I feel like Technology Connections did a better approach to the same topic of innovation: [this video] The idea is "But Sometimes". That is, this new innovation is great in all these areas, but sometimes it's worse. That then becomes a locus for the FUD campaigns -- justified or not. It's also the same kind of thing heard in "no one was ever fired for picking IBM". Fear of an unknown potentially bad outcome outweighs all the known bad outcomes which are improved by the innovation.

Recommends M2Ys4U · 2021-03 · on “A call to improve London's lighting at night”

>Apropos of nothing... I also remember a story about a northern country replacing traffic lights with LEDs and then spending even more money adding heaters because the old lights were naturally warm, and melted any ice that stuck to the lights. Can't find a link to it at the moment. The Technology Connections channel on YouTube has an excellent video on this, called 'The LED Traffic Light and the Danger of "But Sometimes!"': [this video]

Recommends someperson · 2021-03 · on “Solar Is Cheapest Electricity in History, U.S. DOE Aims to Cut Costs 60% by 2030”

You may be interested in the video The LED Traffic Light and the Danger of "But Sometimes!" by Technology Connections: [this video]

Cites runarberg · 2020-02 · on “The specification for native image lazy-loading is merged into HTML standard”

This is a classic case of “But Sometimes” [1]. I guess sometimes lazy loading of images can be frustrating, but most of the times it’s not. 1: [this video]